Agnostic Universe

Last weekend my daughter asked me to take her to the movie Soul Surfer. I was a little wary of the religious aspects of it since she’s still working through her own beliefs, but it wasn’t a bad movie for a 14-year-old girl working through depression regardless of religion. The story of determination and hope outshines any messages of faith it had so I think it’s a decently positive movie for nonbelievers as well. The times they touched on religious belief may be comforting for believers and eye rolling for nonbelievers, but for this nonbeliever they didn’t try too hard with the attempts to associate real world events and human strength to a godly purpose. I think it’s a story about believers without necessarily trying to spread belief. I know I would have hated watching this movie for myself but maybe I’m less critical because I did it for my daughter.

If you don’t know it, it’s a movie based on a true story about a surfer that survived a shark attack but lost an arm. The family rightfully thanked the friend’s dad for what he did to save Bethany more than they thanked their God for saving her. It saddens me when believers give all of the credit to the supernatural and don’t give any credit to the efforts right here on Earth. If you’re going to believe in gods then I still expect you to acknowledge the efforts of humanity since I’ve never seen the gods work without our “help.” Even when it comes to the inevitable question of “why bad things happen to good people?” the answer is the same as you’d get from any human with or without religion. Sometimes things just happen and there is no reason we know for it. They try to suggest that there was tie to an unknown purpose and possibly that was to serve as an inspiration to others. However, the inspiration we can get from Bethany’s strength is for anyone to be inspired by without or without gods.

It was the challenges faced by Bethany and how she dealt with them and overcame them that was the topic of discussion for us. We talked about depression being my daughter’s shark or maybe even her arm loss. We talked about how something that seems so hopeless and terrible at the time can be overcome and there really is a reason to continue living and continue working to be better than our current conditions. We talked about how Bethany and my daughter both have help along the way to survive but ultimately it was Bethany’s strength, determination, and desire to do more and better that made her the better person she has become. Not once did our talk bring up god, religion, or anything supernatural because it wasn’t necessary for the conversation. Not everyone needs such things to give them hope. My daughter felt a little hope and a little happiness to see a fellow teenager girl overcome and triumph. It was a good moment and I hope things like this can provide some amount of help while we work through overcoming her depression. The movie may not have touched my “soul” but it was a nice moment with my daughter that through her it touched my heart. I wish for Bethany’s strength for my own daughter and anyone else that needs it.

I haven’t posted in a while and the reason is depression. It’s not really about me even though I haven’t been feeling as mentally well myself because of this. Our teenage daughter has been diagnosed with clinical depression. You may think of depression as just a feeling but it’s an actual medical condition where your own body and mind is working against you. “True clinical depression is a mood disorder in which feelings of sadness, loss, anger, or frustration interfere with everyday life for a long period of time. The exact cause of depression is not known. Many researchers believe it is caused by chemical imbalances in the brain, which may be hereditary or caused by events in a person’s life. “ Major Depression from NIH

The situation has been getting worse and worse with raging hormones and the move to high school as some personal life events that could be impacting her. However, she’s described it as a feeling of deep sadness that can’t be shaken no matter how good or bad life is going. It’s such a sadness that caused her to think terrible thoughts and engage in self harm which could have had a disastrous ending. She’s also been hospitalized and is working with various medications to help her with this disorder. This is an ongoing issue but we’re hopefully done with the self harm and risk of suicide. I know it has only been the fact that her mother and I have been watching over her and intervening in her activities is the reason why she is still with us today. I implore any of you parents that are dealing with similar situations to read up on depression and get your loved ones actual help from medical professionals if it’s so serious that they need that.

Since this is an agnostic blog I will get to that tie-in now. Earlier in the dealings with this problem our daughter started to try all sorts of things to feel better. One of her best friends is very active in her Methodist church and invited our daughter along so they could spend more time together. Our daughter ended up joining the church and now considers herself a Christian with a healthy amount of skepticism as she tries out belief. She enjoyed the youth activities at the church even if many things were confusing to her as a former nonbeliever. We didn’t agree with religion as an answer but we didn’t criticize or talk negative in any way about it since it was a choice she was making to use it as another tool to help herself. I do believe the social aspects of church are healthy and useful to many people regardless of the truth of religion itself, but like everything else she was trying it didn’t help her depression and she continued suffering until it turned into self harm and other issues that forced us to seek medical help.

I’ve found another good article from a USA Today columnist. The article is Am I raising ‘atheist children’? and starts with a simple and perhaps proud proclamation of ‘I am an atheist’ and explains how that came to be as always being nonreligious. Personally, I went from Catholic to Atheist to Agnostic in my belief.

‘We are nothing’

I never describe our family as “an atheist family” (I prefer to say, “We are nothing,” as in not part of any religion), and I reject the notion that my kids are automatically what I am. I think that keeping them open to all the possibilities is more important than telling them what to believe in.

I know a lot of religious families who say they are a Christian, Jewish or Muslim family. And they are. They have traditions, rituals and celebrations that define what they are. They pass those things to the children, along with belief.

Most young children accept what their parents tell them as true, whether it is the existence of Santa Claus or Jesus Christ. It is important that children understand what their parents believe, but it is also important for children to know about all the options out there. This is tricky if a parent is a true believer of a religion and feels that her way is the only path. But how can children question openly when they are taught that there are absolute truths in belief?

My family doesn’t have a shared religion just as this country does not have a religion. I’m Agnostic, my wife is an unbeliever without want of a label, my son claims Atheist, and my daughter is loosely identified as Christian since she’s 11 and goes along to get along. I’m waiting another year or two before really discussing religion with her since I know a parent’s view and word has power that could be viewed as brainwashing in my opinion. I want her to experience society a bit more first before sharing my own belief in depth. I’ve primarly answered questions with more questions just as the closing of the article touches on. I want my children to develop their own religious identities in their own way so they can truly say their belief is their’s alone. I don’t see any wisdom in having the belief of your ancestors just because of where you were born and who you were born from.

Free will

Part of being a good parent is allowing our children to become whatever and whoever they become. Watching my children explore the ideas that are out there and grapple with the many, often conflicting, religious views in the world is exciting. They bring new understanding to things — not only for themselves, but for me as well. If my daughter came to me and told me she was joining a church, I would ask her how she reached her decision. But that would be my approach with any of the big decisions in my children’s lives. Questioning puts us all on a path to greater understanding.

As my children navigate their teenage years, I know that the understanding will be harder to come by. The questions will get tougher. The answers won’t always be what I want to hear.

But I’ll keep asking, and I’ll encourage my kids to be open and questioning. They might not end up like me, but I’m at peace with the idea that they will end up as themselves.

If you watched the previous video I posted you might have seen the mention of Hell House at the end. I found a video that continues where it left off and shows the horror of Hell House and how the idea of Hell is used to scare children and create hate. Once again we have fellow humans fabricating fear in order to keep people in line and fearful of not believing what they believe. This is what religion is really about and I think this time of year is the perfect time to think about the false fear of Hell and its use for control.

The video below is Richard Dawkins talking about religious education and explaining why children are particularly susceptible to being infected with religious faith. I believe this is why religion remains a potent force in the world even though the actual stories of religion are as fantastic and unbelievable as any of the ancient mythologies humanity has collectively rejected. We reject those so easily now because a parent or other authority figure does not support them. Modern religions remain hard to reject because of our parents and other people of importance to us that claim a belief in these ideas.

I am an outsider of belief now who finally sees the silliness of religion. At its core it is a nonexplanation for existence and reality that masquerades as the final answer. This core also serves as a tool for religious leaders to influence and control us. I was taught a religion as a child because within the viral idea of the religions is the embedded push that it is an idea that must be passed on to our children. I am still exposed to the virus because religion also teaches that you should try to convert others to your belief even though it only serves the needs of the religion and has no bearing on your own belief. Without that viral trait, if it were to be idealized as a personal truth to keep to yourself, then I don’t believe the ideas would survive as well as it does.

I know that in the past, some have suggested exposing our children to other peoples’ religions. I can see the benefits of this, especially when our kids are young and we are there with them to explain it the way we see it. But what about sending them with their friends? Cassandra is right that those formative teen years give the child a desperate need to find a cause that is separate from their parents’. They need to belong somewhere where they will feel accepted. The ‘acceptance’ they will encounter at churches will be alluring, but deceiving, because the acceptance comes with unrealistic and manipulative conditions.

Agnostic Mom – Religious Peer Pressure On Your Teenage Child

I went to Wednesday classes at my Catholic church as a teenager for the very reason of acceptance and to be with my friends. Eventually one of the girls there became my girlfriend which continued my desire to attend. Fortunately for me they weren’t pushing an indoctrination that was irresistible. It was an odd group actually because the class leaders (or whatever they were called) and all of us “kids” were more about the fun and friendship and only really dealt with the instructional part of it all because we were supposed to. Nobody there defended the faith as a life or death matter and just sort of took it for granted as it all being true.

I learned a great deal from the class even though what I learned was the opposite of what they taught. Since they delved more into specifics of the bible, I started realizing the flaws of the whole idea and the obvious similarity to any other form of mythology I’d studied. I think people should be exposed as much as possible to their religion. It’s the people that haven’t truly read the book that believe the most in it.

When it finally came time for our Confirmation ceremony, I had to stop attending class because I couldn’t and wouldn’t go through with it. My mother brought me into the Catholic church but she knew I had the free will to walk away… and I did. I think I owe it to my children to make up their minds in the same way as long as they are the ones truly making the decision.

Do we outlaw all participation in church services and activities? Will that seem paranoid? Does that matter? Do we let them go and then talk about it with them afterwards?

After thinking about my experiences as a teen, I feel inclined to not allow it at all. But maybe I am reacting to the anger I am starting to feel at my memories.

What are your thoughts and experiences on the matter?

We let them go with people we trust and talk about it with them afterwards. If they begin to get lured into a cultish environment (Christianity does qualify as a cult in my viewpoint) then I would combat it with reason and exposure to even more conflicting varieties of religion. The most important lesson I can give them is that no human has a monopoly on the “one right path” in life and nobody has the big answers for life, not even their parents.

It wouldn’t bother me if either of my children gained a spirituality and belief in a god, as long as they do it with an open mind and the belief is truly of their own mind. If I ever thought a religious group was trying to control the mind of my children I would definitely have to counter that any way that I could. However, I do know that just forbidding certain things usually backfires with children, so outlawing religion won’t happen in my household.

I summoned up my courage, swallowed my fear of my father’s reaction, walked into the living room, “Dad, I’m not going to church with you this week, I uh, well I just don’t really, you know, uh, believe what the rest of you guys believe. So I’m not going to Church.” I waited for the reaction, but my dad calmly looked at me, smiled a bit and said, “Okay Jack, after all you are sixteen and you need to make your own choices.”

I couldn’t believe it, I was home free, I walked out of the room, lifted by my defiance of my parent’s values and ready to sleep in comfortably the next Sunday, when I heard my father’s voice again, still calm, but with a little more edge to it this time, “By the way Jack I was wondering something,” “What Dad?” “Where were you planning on living?” “Uhh, what do you mean, I’m living here?” His finger wagged back and forth, I don’t think so, you see Jack when you live in my house you play by my rules, and in my house we go to church, now it seems to me you have a choice to make.”

Some choice, I had thirty-seven dollars to my name and I had no place to go, I stayed home, I went to church, but I didn’t believe.

Better Families: I Don’t Believe Anymore!

This is from a person that eventually went back to their faith because of their parents’ heavy-handed tactics. I just find it so unimaginable that religion can be such a life or death issue with some people that they’d rather throw their children out of their home than let them think for themselves.

The greatest thing about being a freethinker and an Agnostic for a parent is that I would never work to enslave my children’s mind to a concept that relies on faith alone. They can believe what they want to believe and that includes faith-based religions. I may disagree with such a belief, but there is no god of mine to anger that forces me to throw my children out if they don’t bow down to my god.

My freedom of thought and belief extends to becoming a freedom for my children, even if they don’t believe as I believe.

A person asks advice for what a niece should do about an Atheist father’s influence on her children. This is the reply from “The God Squad.”

You should give your niece the courage to raise her children with God for two reasons: 1) they are her kids, not her father’s, and 2) without God, most kids never learn that they have been put here to serve others, not just themselves.

There are many nonaggressive, morally distinguished atheists, but faith is a great help to all of us, particularly children, in creating a modest, compassionate and pious life. You say your niece’s children are young, implying that her father’s atheist beliefs won’t be a problem until they’re older, but he needs to be put in his place.”

Newsday.com: How to keep faith when grandpa’s a vocal atheist

I do agree with their first point that the kids are the niece’s and should be raised the way the niece wants. However, I disagree on trying to shield children from nonbelievers. I don’t overtly shield my children from believers. The more they hear the more they will be able to think for themselves and determine their own truths.

I find it ironic that they think God is needed to teach people they are here to serve others, because I’ve encountered many highly religious people that are completely self-serving, particularly when they view you as unreligious and undeserving of their “service.”

It is nice they admit that there are many “nonaggressive, morally distinguished atheists” even though they don’t admit that these are just human traits and have nothing to do with religious beliefs. Obviously if they can admit Atheists can have morality then it is not something exclusively derivable from religious teachings. I’ll admit some people do get their moral viewpoint from religious teachings, but can they admit that it is not required to define a person’s morality?

The final comment I’ve quoted is just downright rude: “he needs to be put in his place.” Hopefully they only mean that he’s not the parent, so if he’s asked to not interfere he should respect that request. Hopefully they don’t mean that he should keep quiet just because he’s an Atheist.

It makes me wonder if the religious views were reversed in the scenario, would they give the same advice? Would they say the Christian father should keep quiet and let his daughter raise Atheist children free from his contradictory teachings? Maybe I’ll write them and find out…

“Generation Y is down with faith and spirituality. But when it comes to traditional religious institutions, most young people are saying: Whatever.
In a landmark report on youth and religion released today, the plurality of 18-to-25 year old Americans claim religion and spirituality as an important part of their lives — but say they’re shunning the religious establishment to explore their faith in untraditional, informal, and often highly personal ways.
The survey, the first of its kind to compare and contrast the religious identity of 18-to-25 year old Catholics, Protestants, Jews, and Muslims, classified the plurality of Generation Y (46%) as "Undecided," young people who value faith, but prefer to express it informally. The remaining respondents are identified as either highly religious (27%) or avowedly secular (27%).”

Study: Most Young Adults Value Faith, But Shun Organized Religion

This news is refreshing after so much news about the march of the religious right on Washington and their efforts to institutionalize religion in government. Only 1/4 of our youth are highly religious with another 1/4 wise enough to be secular.

Almost 1/2 are religious but are staying away from church and organized religion. I would imagine that a sizeable portion of those aren’t really religious in the traditional sense and are really Deists or Agnostics and they just don’t know it. At that age I would have identified myself in that middle group because of the unpopularity of being a nonbeliever.

It gives me hope to know that our future generations aren’t being completely brainwashed.